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How to Create the Greatest Team to Control Your Marketing

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Amrita Govindji-Bruce

Welcome to How To Create The Greatest Team to Control Your Marketing. Which I’m delighted will be presented today by Amrita Govindji-Bruce, who we work very closely with all things HR, and I can definitely recommend them as a HR support company. I’ve been with them a few years now. And they provide great service for us. Regular workshops are designed to help you take your vision and realize it into successful business. So, the overall structure for the next hour will be a short introduction as to who we are and what Vision Success is all about. Amrita’s educational presentation, and then there’ll be a chance to ask questions at the end, feel free to drop the questions into chat. And I’ll make sure that they’re addressed at the end of the presentation Or Amrita if you keep an eye on the chat. You can pick up the questions as you go. As you feel, then if there’s time, we’ll open the floor to any questions around marketing, and business.

Okay, so just quick update on what we’re doing. so as most of you know, a lot of you probably know, been a business coach for 20 odd years now with over 600 businesses, working with technology since 1984. And we’re between myself and Charlie, we run coop digital, which is a marketing agency and vision to success, which is a marketing support business.

So why did we do this? And have all this stress, like average just few minutes ago trying to improve and do what we want. Well, it’s helping you guys compete in the digital world. We believe if we do it first, then we’re best equipped to help you in the future. Here to build on your knowledge, because things are changing very rapidly at the moment, especially with the introduction of ChatGPT taking off. It will change a lot of things. Here to help you solve your digital marketing problems and talk about quickly. We’re building community to support marketing. We believe the future is very much about collaboration and hence why Amrita’s delivering the workshop today.

So, what is Vision2Success?

We’ve got the free marketing community is got now eight courses on it to a paid six are free. I’ve got some more ideas for courses in the future. And we got a full course on marketing strategy implementation, we’ve just gone live with a new one on video marketing, those are paid for. And we’ve got a, we’re building an app, which will very quickly tell you about. And in two weeks’ time, we’re going to go into a lot more depth, because we’re now building in ChatGPT into it. We can provide marketing support, whatever size of business you are, and we can also provide marketing strategy and part time marketing managers services. So, we believe we can help no matter what your budget ambitions or stage of growth.

This is the hub hub.vision2success.co. It’s completely free. We’ve got various support mechanisms on there. And we have the eight courses I talked about. And I’ve got some more ideas and pipeline to add to that. So, it’s about making it easy for you to do business to learn marketing and get better at what you do.

And we do have a full course, which is normally £275. If you use this code, you can get it for £96 pounds, if you use this code in the workshop, and it gives you all the underlying all the underlying theory you may need to know about marketing, developing your marketing strategy. And as a thank you for attending the workshop, whether you’re streaming in via LinkedIn, YouTube, etc. You can have a free one to one with me to type in https://calendly.com/peterdickinson/30min. And we will also, I’ll also be very happy to take you through where we’re at with the app at the moment. We’ll be doing a lot more in two weeks’ time. And hopefully, we’ll be showing you how to use ChatGPT to do your marketing strategy.

And now I’d like to today introduce you to my guest speaker, Amrita Govindji-Bruce of the Nori Consultancy. And so, we’ve as I said before, we’ve had the pleasure of working with a number of years now. And Nori have been instrumental to helping us get our HR right. So today Amrita will be presenting on how to create a greatest team to control your marketing. Workshop will cover why you should be should have a solid recruitment process. Look at the importance of aligning your business goals with recruitment process, and ensuring that your employee retention starts right at the start of the recruitment process is super important. And it’ll also allow you to look at your recruitment and onboarding process and effectively close the gaps so that by the end of the workshop, you should be able to go to look at your team and go right. Okay, how can I get keep the best staff and get the best staff? Okay, I’ll stop sharing and Amrita if you’d like to take over. Thanks. Thank you.

Perfect. Everybody gives me a couple of seconds. I’m not as particularly techy as everybody who’s on this call. So just give me a couple of minutes to share my screen and pop it into slideshow mode for you all. There we go. Good morning, everybody. Thank you so much, Peter, for that lovely introduction. So as Pete said, my name is Amrita Govindji-Bruce and I was a little bit of a mouthful. And I’m one of the managing directors for Nori HR and employment law. So as Peter said, we’ve worked quite hand in glove with Cub. Since our inception really, and it’s been an absolute pleasure to support him in regards to this webinar.

So today, we’re going to be talking really about how to recruit onboard and retain your marketing teams and it really isn’t about teaching. Employers really have to suck eggs, it’s just really about ensuring that there’s processes in place to ensure that you are getting the correct employees that you actually need, how to onboard them in the correct way, especially for creatives, and how to retain them. Because, as we all know, different teams require different specifications in regards to how you recruit how you retain how you onboard.

So, to kick off, what we really look at when we start in the recruitment process, especially in the marketing arena, is what aspects of marketing really is the organization looking for? And the way to really look at that is about looking at the team that’s currently in place or looking at what you have already in place and where the holes are that needs to be filled. So, we call it succession planning. What is there? What needs to be done to fill those holes? Ultimately, it’s also about looking at bat about due to the vast nature of marketing, what is the business actually looking for? Are you looking for somebody who’s really techy, you’re looking for somebody who’s very into trends, so digital content brand email design, the seven aspects of that, ultimately, we need to ensure that we’re taking on the correct person for the role?

Just as an example, we took on a marketing executive. Now, we already outsource our SEO. So, we didn’t want somebody who had specialism in SEO, but we wanted somebody who will be able to support that. So, what we were looking for is really, about somebody who can brand manage, who can look at our email marketing, who can look at our design, who can look at our content, but who’s also got the ability to have conversations and quite meaningful conversations with anybody that we outsource our website to, or SEO to.

So again, it’s really about looking who the person is, that will be beneficial for the business, or who will dovetail into the team and support your other team members weaknesses, because what you don’t want is a team full of the same people. Because you’re not going to generate a you’re not going to challenge in the way that is needed, especially in marketing. Like Peter said, we’ve got lots of new technology coming out, especially with ChatGpt. And we need to make that team really progressive. So we need lots of ideas, lots of challenges. And we need to really look at that before we go out to market. If we don’t know what we’re looking for in somebody, then what we are going to get is somebody who’s not going to really fit what we need, because we don’t know.

Like I said, we need to have a look at what the current team members look like in terms of skills. And really, this is about skills gap analysis as well. So, we’re looking at what they can currently do. Bring somebody in who’s able to again, like I said before, dovetail their weaknesses, but also allows them to grow in regards to their skill set. We, here at Nori do a lot of peer-to-peer learning. And we also do a lot of outsourced learning. And it’s great to see that people look at and teams look at things in very different ways. And that’s really what you want.

So, succession planning, making sure that there is a plan in place, even before you go out to market. Who are you looking for? What are the skills you’re looking for? What skills you currently have is really important. Again, you don’t want a team made up of the same types of people that can do exactly the same things. And also looking at the organization and where the current marketing, whether any of the current marketing is outsourced. You want to make sure that you’re not duplicating.

Like said, we have outsourced SEO. So, we want to make sure that we don’t bring somebody into the business, who can do all of that outsourced SEO that we’re already paying for that we’re already in a contract for. But that weakness is in regards to brand management and design and email campaigns, etc. So, we need to make sure that those conversations are taking place, especially with our outsourced agencies. What can they do? What don’t they want to do? And what kind of conversations are they willing to have with the team because sometimes you don’t want to be decision makers sat on a knowledge transfer, Zoom meeting, teams meeting or whatever service you use. So, it’s really important outside that you get a good fit. So, if you’ve got a set of company values, a set of company goals. Then as you’re looking to go to market, once you’ve decided what you were looking for, make sure that you’ve got those company goals and values in place because you want to really align that with the job specification and the job description that you’re going to be putting out as well. 

So those are the four along with my narrative attached to it. Those are the four main things that we look at before we even go to market in regards to a marketing executive or any specifics in regards to the marketing arena.

When we decide that we want to go to market, we need to really look in the right places for the right person. So, look at existing relationships. Those are so beneficial in regards to getting the right person for your business, because they will already have a flavor of who you are. Are you extremely corporate? You want somebody who is very, very kind of in a box just doing exactly what they need to do. Or are you looking for somebody who’s extremely creative and you’re willing to give that person creative freedom to do whatever they need to do. And existing relationships that can help with that.

Or you’re looking for a specialist, or you’re looking for somebody who is amazing at brand management, reputational management in regards to your brand, are you looking for somebody who’s amazing at SEO, or looking for somebody who’s a lead generator in regards to marketing campaigns, who’s a content writer, if you’re looking for the people who are extremely specialists, the best way to go is down a specialist recruiter. They you’ve got the ability and the ways in the means to headhunt those individuals that you’re looking for.

Now, that’s not to say that recruiters are not going to live recruiters are quite expensive. But if you got the right recruiter, and they allow you to put in the ability to spread payments across X amount of months, then you know that they are going to look for somebody who’s extremely specific to what you need. 

If you’re looking for a generic role very much like we have done a marketing executive because we know exactly where all of our outsource is set and what needs to happen in regards to those outsourcers, we still went to a specialist recruiter. However, we made sure that we were specific in what we needed. So really, we need to look at what complements a team, what outsourcers are in place, leveraging those existing relationships, to make sure that if people do already know the values, and understand what the industry is about, you’re going to get a quality candidate from there. If you go out to market, maybe use indeed, you’re going to get quality candidates because you’re not going to understand the job description and job specification that you’ve put out there. Because it is going to be very generic, and not as specific as you want it to be.

So, we’ve put our job specification together, we’ve done our skills, gap analysis, we’ve done our succession planning. We’ve put job description job specification together. And we started to get some applications, whether that comes from people that you know already in industry, or specialist recruiters or just generic CVs or applications from LinkedIn, indeed, total jobs, wherever you’re looking. Once you start to filter those down, you’re always going to get some candidates that will shine because they’ll have researched the organization. And ultimately, you want to hire a marketeer, who has put that in place, who has had a look at the industry, who’s had a look at the organization, who can come in during the time of interview. And they show advanced knowledge of the services and products that you sell. So, you want somebody who’s really kind of got under the skin of the organization, they’ve looked at the generic stuff in regards to website and other socials. They might actually do a little bit of I call it LinkedIn stalking; they might have a little bit of LinkedIn stalking in regards to the people that work for you, they might see that we speak to or interact with a lot of businesses online, and they might have gone into detail in regards to who those businesses are.

And so, all of that it shows me that they’ve actually researched the organization and they do have advanced knowledge of the service and products that they sell. They’ve even called up and had a pre interview conversation in regards to what do they need to do when they come into the actual interview process. The ones who understand the company’s future – where are you now and where do you want to be? What does that look like for me as somebody coming in? Who’s going to be interviewing, going to be interviewed by you? Is the company growing? Are we in a stagnant period? Is there a particular project and that’s why I’ve been brought in and then so we’ll see where you go to? So, they need to understand what the company looks like now and in the future. And that’s really the mark of a good candidate. And they also want to understand how the skills will slot into the current team. If it’s a standalone roll. They will want to understand how they slot into the organization, what tasks that they will be expected to do and also who they will need be communicating with what that process looks like. And the only way that you’re going to be able to provide that is if you’ve done that foundation, succession planning skills gap analysis, making sure the job description and job specification is absolutely on point. If you don’t have those four things in place, before you go to interview, it’s going to be very difficult to say to somebody, this is our process, this is where you will sit within the team. This is how you will interact with other outsourcers or with your team members. Because they’ll be coming in and be told you need to do marketing. And that’s very broad. So, we need to make sure that those four things are done.

And also, we need to also understand what the organization’s expectations are, in order to pass that across, is it about brand awareness. Have we just put a brain matter if you like down on a job specification or on a job description? Hoping that the marketing executive will come in and save the fact that we need leads. Well, a marketing executive works side by side with SEO, they might work side by side with an actual lead generator. They’re not individuals who will come in and be solely responsible, for example, lead generation. And it’s that insight, I think organizations sometimes lack especially when they are taking on creatives and marketing individuals. They think that they’re going to be the miracle cure, for example, for brand awareness or lead generation. And that’s not the case, they will always dovetail with another outsourcer, or somebody else who’s in the team that does that as their sole role. 

When we’re looking to the actual role, we’re talking about the job description in the person specification, but we need to make sure that it’s true to what the role will be. And it also covers, but it’s not limited to – succinct information on what the role actually is. If you’re looking for somebody who’s techy, that needs to be in the job description. If you’re looking for somebody who is social media, or trends or brand awareness, or whatever you are looking for, you need to make sure that that information is within that role, within that job description.

I think what a lot of people forget to do as well within a job description, is put the actual salary in place. And I know for some people, they say, well, that’s not important, because you know, we want them to understand the culture. It is important in order for them properly to get to where you need them to be. So, a salary package, and we’ll talk about this in regards to retention. A salary package includes everything from salary, to benefits, to expectations in regards to if you work outside of normal working hours, because we need content creation for an event that we’re going to go to, you’ll receive those hours back in life. Really simple things that can probably tip a candidate from absolutely not to, absolutely yes.

Location is also massive. Is it an office-based role? Is that going to help a creative actually do their role? Or is it a hybrid role? Whether they can work from home, where they can work from business center, where they can go out content create? Or is it solely remote? Also, if it is solely remote? Is that beneficial for your business? 

But all of these things need to be within the job description. Hours of work are really important, it’s a flexible role. Bearing in mind, content creation and marketing isn’t really a nine to five job. So, is this a flexible role where they will need to work core hours but they can do their other hours maybe early morning or a bit later at night? So, can they move their 37 and a half hours, 40 hours, 35 hours? Can they flex up through the week? All of these things are really important and also being honest and open about all of these things at the point that you’re looking to offer a role is absolutely paramount. 

I will give you a little bit of an example. So, we like I said we’ve taken on a marketing executive. And the previous company that she used to work for said your hours of work or 40 hours a week. When she finally got into the role. She was working from nine o’clock in the morning to nine o’clock at night plus weekends content creating now that’s not 40 hours a week. That’s a lot more than 40 hours a week. And that was not true to the job description or the person specification that she got given. She was also told that the marketing would only cover two companies. But when she was actually offered the role, and she accepted, she was told that actually, super sorry, the content creation covers seven. So, you’ve got to be really open and honest. You are going to get those individuals who that amount of work will be absolutely fine. But there’s going to be a lot of attrition, if you’re not honest and open in regards to what the role requires. It’s better to be honest and open now, before taking somebody on in them only been with you for three months. And you’re having to go out to market again, but you’ve not been honest, in regards to the job description and the actual person specification, what is required of the role. 

So in regards to the foundation work, we’ve got our succession planning done, we’ve got our team members looked at in regards to skills gap analysis, we’ve got a job description, and we have got our person specification. We’ve whittled down our applications, we’ve made sure that everything is in line with what we are looking for, with an interview, because we’ve whittled people down, we need to ensure that the interview process is in line with the job role. It’s really disappointing when we come across organizations, where maybe a role is not even a director level, it’s not a junior role. It might be a little bit of a senior role. But the interview process is so onerous that they will never get the person that they want.

So again, going back to our lovely marketing executive, she had a seven-stage interview for a marketing executive role. By the time she got to the end of that seven-stage interview, the company had actually gone into administration. Ironic, however, that seven stage interviews were probably

a little bit OTT. So, she had a written test done, she had to do tasks and a presentation and interview with a line manager and interview with the directors. It was very, very, very arduous. And in reality, an interview should really be a conversation in regards to this is what we are looking for. And also, are you going to be a really good fit for the team? We don’t get that from testing, or task related. That’s about testing and test related assessments are really about knowledge. That doesn’t show us whether somebody is going to fit into a team, whether they’ve got the ability to see what other people’s weaknesses are, see what their strengths are, and dovetail those. You’re really only going to get that from a conversation with somebody. And it’s about ensuring that anybody who is sat in that interview is going to be part and parcel of their team. So, there is no point in an MD, who has very little interaction with the marketing team, potentially holding that interview. It’s very important that the marketing manager or somebody who looks after that marketing team, or somebody who has got direct interaction with that team, does the interview maybe with a member of the team in in attendance. Because that those are the people that they need to be getting on with, those are the people that they need to be aligned with. And you need to be comfortable with the people that you’re working with. So that’s what you need to be looking at. 

If you do require a presentation or testing or any task related assessments, and they in line with the level of the role, are you asking for something too vague or too much for what the role actually is and what that role actually looks like? And also, be open and honest about the culture of the organization during that interview. If you do have banter in the office, if you do talk a lot, if it is quite a loud, bubbly office, then that’s something to talk about, because the person that you’ve got, it might not be that way inclined. And so again, it’s sometimes stepping out and saying the skills that we’re looking for are absolutely great and we know exactly what we’re looking for. But if those skills don’t match up with the culture of the organization and what they can probably bring to the organization in regards to an individual’s personality. Then that’s always going to end up in attrition, you’re always going to end up with that turnover that you’re not that you don’t really want.

In regards to on board a in regards to the interview as well, we just need to make sure that when we do interview, we give them enough time. If there is something to prepare for, we give interviewees enough time to prepare for it. We’ve been in some interviews for clients, and somebody’s been rung up in the morning to say “oh, yeah, by the way, I just need you to pop together a presentation. And I know that your interviews at 11 o’clock and this is at half past nine”. Pressure is great. But that looks like we as an organization, aren’t organized. So, you want to show that as an organization, we’re organized, we’ll let you know what you need to do, because it also gives them enough time to prepare, and it doesn’t throw them off without coming in. 

In regards to when you onboard employees, and this is I think this is across the board, regardless of whether it’s a marketeer or whether it’s a member of office staff and advisor, whoever it might be. Ensure the time between the date of the interview to the outcome is reasonable. If you’ve interviewed on the first of June, for example, and you’ve still got other interviews to go through, give the interviewee that information that we do have other interviews, however, we will get back to you on such and such a day. And keep to that day. The delay in offering a role or giving feedback may result in the loss of a really good candidate. And sometimes, you end up kicking yourself after the interview has taken place, maybe two or three weeks have passed because you get the phone call from the candidate saying thank you for the interview three weeks ago, I’ve accepted another role. And all you wanted to do is make sure that they were the right people. If you feel in your gut that that interviewee or that interview was absolutely amazing. Then tell them that that was absolutely amazing. But we do have a couple more interviews, it’d be great if we can carry on talking. Those conversations outside of an interview process are absolutely diamond, because it shows that the rather a good communicator. And it also shows that you are willing to put yourself out to have that those conversations with them as well. That it makes them feel bought into especially if that is the person that you want to onboard. You want to get loyalty and you want to get if you like, buy in, without sounding too salesy once, get that feedback and buy in from that interview we from that point, from the point you said, that’s a brilliant interview, we will be in touch. We’ve just got a couple more interviews to go. But we will absolutely be in touch, make sure you follow up. Once you’ve actually offered that role to somebody, you need to ensure that there is a full induction plan in place. And I’ll go through really what an induction plan should look like.

Again, not teaching people how to suck eggs. But sometimes because there’s a lot of things going on, especially if people own their own business or especially if they’re really busy, things get missed. And then induction is an absolutely key way of retention from the point of offering a role.

You’ve got to ensure that the assets are in place before the start date. That sounds really silly. If they need a mobile phone, make sure the mobile phone is actually connected. Make sure that they’ve got a laptop or headset, all the programs and the licenses. That shows that you’ve already bought into them, that you are ready to go. And it also shows them that you’re organized, that things aren’t going to be held-skelter and messy and they’ve got the ability to say right if I need something, it’s not going to be Yeah, we’ll get it to you in two weeks. Yeah, we’ll get you that program in a week and a half I’ll put you on that plot platform in a week. As you’re all aware, marketing is fast paced, so we need to make sure that we’re also showing that we can keep up with that in regards to giving this new employee what they need to do their role and involve the existing team into the into in the induction of for the new team member. If his standalone role, you’ve got to ensure that there’s an even more robust plan in place. Get them in touch with your outsourcers, make sure that they’ve got all the program that they need. Make sure that that induction plan is written and I’m ready to go by the time that they start and ensure that the people that they may be shadowing or having conversations with are free to do that.

The worst thing is, when you walk into any type of business, and you’re told, yeah, there’s an induction plan in place. You’ve got a beautiful, beautifully set out calendar and you go, you pop along to Gary, for example, he’s one of our who’s the head of our advice department. And he’s like, Oh, really sorry, I didn’t know that you were sitting with me. Don’t know what we’re going through, but you can listen to a call if you want. Because that’s not what they’re there for that’s understand and learn what the role is, and also how that butts up against what they will be doing on a day-to-day basis.

If you are putting them into an existing team, then get that existing team to be a quite a massive part of their induction. Make them sit with all of the team ensure that they’re aware of everything that needs to be done, make sure that we’re not left alone. What sounds really silly – things like lunches, coffee rooms, where’s the kitchen, where do I get a brew from what’s everybody’s, what’s everybody’s cups of teas, coffees, whatever it might be, get them involved from that point forward. Because at that point, they will start to feel like they’re part of the team rather than an outsider coming in. And they’re having to then, if you like find their place. And ensure that the current team is aware of when somebody starting. Ensures that there’s no holidays on that, on the on the first day, ensure that the total team is full complement on that particular day. Because that means a lot for somebody who started. 

So, this is just a really simple onboarding induction checklist. And it’s really about ensuring that all these things are in place essential apps, access it HR assets, making sure that you’ve got the contract of employment in place, if you’ve got an HR management system, making sure that we’ve got access to that, ensuring that they’ve got their emails, Microsoft 365 if necessary. Whatever it might be, that should be up ready to go on their first day of employment. Any phone numbers that they need, if you do have an external outsourced IT person, make sure that they’ve got that information. If they need codes to get in the building, give them that information. The worst thing is, is when you turn up to work, and you see a new starter stood outside, and it’s a second day, oh, super sorry, I forgot to give you a key I forgot to give you the code to get in the door.

Ensure that the line manager is in place, if they don’t have a dedicated line manager, make sure somebody in management is there. And they understand that they’re the one that’s taking them through the induction program. Ensure that you’ve got an overview of a business. If things have changed from the point that you’ve interviewed to the point that they’ve started, ensure that there is a plan in place, ensure that there is comes in place or assets in place to say things have changed since we first had the interview with you, I know we’ve had a couple of phone calls, but this is where we’re up to. That’s exactly what’s happened in regards to our marketing executive, we’ve rolled out a couple of new services, we’ve pulled her into the loop and said, this is the change from the day that we’ve interviewed you to today’s day. Get yourself acquainted with all of this information. And we’ll also go through with you in regards to induction. Meet the rest of the team and start learning about their roles, and that means the whole team. If it is a quite a large corporate business, then obviously you don’t want them going around 150-200 members of staff because that’s not conducive to actually getting them into their role and getting them working. But we want them to be able to speak to key members of staff, people who they will be working with.

I remember working for quite a large corporate and being told to “Oh yeah, you just email such and such person”. I had no idea who that person was or how they interacted with my role. And so, when I was communicating with them, I didn’t know in what tone I needed to communicate with them. So, get them introduced to the key people that they will be speaking to on a day-to-day basis, make sure that you get them into the loop in regards to what the inbox looks like if there’s a dedicated marketing inbox. Whether there’s any meetings that need to be scheduled in, make sure that they’re in on all of those meetings, they’ve got those inboxes available to them, and then start a software training. Marketeers know exactly what they’ve done previously. It might be that you use different types of software, and it’s making sure that they understand what software you do use and make sure that you’ve got a deep dive into projects or work streams. Where work is coming from, what current projects are in place, where people are up to and how and your expectations of where they will fit into those projects and work streams. It is unfair to expect an employee, marketeer or otherwise, to start on day one and then receive an email says “Please can you look at such and such”, and for them to understand what that means in the context of your organization. So, if you have that, what however you do it, whether use a project system, we use Zoho Projects. Whatever it might be, take them through those projects and where you expect them to sit within those projects, what you expect them to do within those projects.

If there are any KPIs or any goals, whether it’d be a 10, KPI or an individual KPI, make sure that they are they understand that information. There is absolutely no way that in three months’ time you come to do a review, or you come to do a one to one. And you say well that KPI hasn’t been hit, probably hasn’t been hit because the understanding of that KPI or goal hasn’t been communicated properly. If the individual from day one understands what expectations are, they’re probably able to manage your expectations and when they’ll be able to hit it, or they’ll turn around and say yep, on it, I can do that.

So, it’s about managing each other employment, regardless of whether it’s marketing or other. It’s a two-way street. And there’s checks and balances. And there’s got to be that open communication in regards to that. And also meeting key external contact is absolutely key. If there are any outsourced agencies that are working for the business, that will directly impact on that person’s role. Make sure that those individuals are introduced to them in that first week. Don’t leave them on a call, don’t leave them on in a face-to-face meeting, but be there to be somebody who can introduce and then talk about the project that’s taking place. Talk about what that outsourcer actually does it make sure that they understand what that outsourcer does, how they communicate back, what that communication looks like. Is it a monthly meeting? Is it a weekly report? What do they do with that weekly report? If they’re not being told what exactly happened with this information, then they can’t then pass that on. It’s just an email site in their inbox, or it’s just a report that sat on projects. They need to understand exactly what their expectations are in regards to those reports in that communication.

So, when we look at retention, so we’ve done all of the amazing interviewing, we’ve done skills, gap analysis, succession planning, job descriptions, and job specifications that we’ve been through the interview process where we’ve either given them tasks or assessments to do. We’ve ensured that their induction is absolutely on point. And they’ve been taken through the induction in a really comprehensive manner. What we don’t want when we’re going through induction is it to be bitty. Are you going to speak to this person now and “oh, by the way, you need to go and speak to HR”? It needs to be quite processed driven, because that means that that person can see how their employment journey goes through the organization. And now we’re looking at retention. And now we’re kind of we’re in employment, they’re doing really well they’re looking at projects, they’re doing what they need to do, because you really set the foundation for what you’re looking and they’re fulfilling that, because you knew exactly what you were looking for.

So, when we’re looking at retention, we need to compensate them fairly. And also think beyond the salary. So, I know it sounds really obvious, but ultimately pay people what they are due, and they’ll probably stick around. A lot of people think “Do you know what I’ll set the salary a little bit lower, and we’ll see where they’re up to in three months time and then we’ll put it at market value”. You’re not going to get what you’re looking for, and they’re probably going to leave pretty swiftly. What we would probably advise clients to do is do a bit of salary benchmarking, do a bit of a salary benchmarking exercise, to see really where you’re sat in regards to the industry. And that will give you a bit of abandon and minimum and maximum of what you’re looking for.

Also, think beyond salary. It’s not just pay, it’s not just the £30,000 a year. It’s about the benefits that they might receive. Do you offer EAP Do you offer a limited annual leave; do you offer contractual maternity pay contractual paternity pay? Do you offer anything in regards to – I’d say miscarriage, bereavement. If you’re expecting them to work outside of normal working hours, how was that compensated? Do they spend start later the next day? Or do they receive time off in lieu, if they have to go to event on a weekend? How is that then compensated? Ensure that they’ve got a work life balance, because that’s looking beyond the salary, that’s making sure that you are putting their wellbeing ahead of your bottom line, which is really what employees are looking for. Is there anything that you do that’s a little bit different? Team days out, seeing weekends away? Going out for lunch, when a new team member starts. Bringing in a buffet, when it’s about somebody’s birthday. All of those types of things are things that are looking beyond the salary. And if it’s not something that you’re already doing, or if you’re not looking at your award and benefit package now, then I would advise to have a look at your reward and benefit package at some point. Because you don’t always need to think about salary. 

Maybe it’s worth doing an employee survey, before somebody new starts. What are they looking for? Do they want EAP? Do they want pension sacrifice? Are they looking for something a little bit more? So, what are they looking for that is beyond an actual salary package? 

When we’re talking about rewarding generously, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. In regards to looking beyond the salary package. Make sure that if somebody is going above and beyond, you’re expecting them to work outside of the nine to five, you’re expecting them to work on a weekend, you’re expecting them to drive down to London for an event, whatever it might be. Don’t (just) compensate them, but also reward them in regards to what do they want to do. Do they want to go out networking? Do they want to do seminars, do they want to do webinars? Do they want to get involved in another part of the organization? That is all about rewarding them generously. It’s not like I keep saying it’s not just about pay. It’s about understanding the team that you have. And making sure that you really treating them as individuals, and not just as a team, not just that team can do that and that’s where it stands. You’re going to have individuals who were absolutely fine with just coming into work during the job going home. But you are going to have individuals who wants to do a little bit more in the organization. And that’s about rewarding them generously.

There’s that quote, that say “treat team like people”. Treat the team like people, don’t treat them as a collective of the marketing team will do that. That’s what I hear quite a lot. A marketing team will do that. Yeah, that’s not a problem marketing team will come out at 10 o’clock at night and take a little bit of video for content for the business. Well, they you need to make sure that you’re treating them like people. Have conversations, have two-way conversations, come to some compromises in regards to expectations. You’re probably go in to get a lot more buy in from your team and from your people than if there’s, if there’s a dictation of you must do this, and this is how it must be done. Give them creative freedom because that’s why they’re in the business. That’s why they’re in their organization, to have creative freedom and allow them to challenge you whether you’re a manager or whether you are an MD of a business, like myself. I’m not a marketer, I’m a lawyer. So, my marketing consists of there’s a really wordy email, please can you get back to me and that is absolutely not what marketing is about. And I need somebody to challenge me and tell me whether I’m doing something right or wrong. And so, allow them to challenge and allow them to have that creative freedom. And also ensure that professional development is available.

Nobody’s going to stay with you forever and ever and ever. And so, by giving them that professional development, they will stay with you for as long as necessary until they outgrow and if they never outgrow you then it’s a bonus. But if they do you know that you’ve done everything that you can in order to keep them and the only reason why you’ve not kept them is because you’ve actually nurtured and made them bigger than your team, than what your business needs.

Now, that’s not a bad thing. It’s not a bad thing at all, because you’re always leaving the door open, maybe there’s a marketing director role for them in your future, whatever it might be. But look at their development, look at what they need. And also get ahead of what we call contagious attrition. So, it’s actually called the BBC coined is turnover contagion. And it sounds like we’re talking about a pandemic again, but turnover contagion. And it’s where basically, in regards to creative roles, there is a massive turnover, there’s very little retention in regards to creative roles. Because creatives, as you probably all were looking for, work life balance, being able to have creative freedom, having that professional development being able to challenge. So, we need to make sure that we get ahead of it.

Ultimately, we need to make sure that we anticipate the effects. Why has it happened? Is it because we haven’t treated them fairly? Is it because we haven’t given them what they need in order to do their roles correctly? And is it because the communication from the point that we’ve taken this individual arm to now, has not been as open and honest as it should have been very much like our lovely marketing executive that we’ve taken on. When she was taken on, she was told one thing, three months later, she’s dealing with seven companies. We need to be, we need to get ahead of it, we need to make sure that we were being honest and truthful with people that we take on.

And if somebody does leave, we need to address it openly with the team. It allows us to get in front of any fears that they might have. It also allows us to nip it in the bud, for why it also allows you to do is reflect as a business owner or as a leader of the team. What could we have done better? And that’s sometimes a really hard position to take and what could we have done better? And how do we make this process better? What do we need to do in order to retain our creatives? The more effort we actually put into actively keeping employees happy, it will reduce turnover. Because it sounds really cliche, happy employees are productive employees. If people are happy, they’re not going to leave. But it’s about communication. It’s about ensuring that we communicate with employees and make sure that we’re putting things in place that they need. And if we can’t do it, then telling them why we can’t do it, be open and honest. And that goes across the board, not just with marketers, not just with creators, but across the board in regards to your organization. I always say that nobody’s born a director or a manager, we learned and the people that we learned from are the employees that we have around us. And we want to take on employees who make us better at what we do. So, we take on that criticism, we take on those challenges, and we allow them to be creative in their roles. 

The one thing that I would like people to take away is ensure being aware what they are actually looking for. It’s very easy to turn around, say I need a marketing person in my business. But what type of marketing person are you looking for? We forget and I keep going back to our situation because it’s easy situation to talk about really. Because it’s true to life. We’ve had to sit down and say, what type of marks person we’re looking for. Are we looking for somebody who’s extremely techy? Who’s a SEO and very much about diverting leads onto the website and all about content and what that means? Or are we looking for somebody who’s all about brand awareness, social media, able to spot trends, gregarious, able to push our employees into actually posting on LinkedIn and on Tik Tok, and getting involved in YouTube and doing seminars and all that type of stuff?

We wanted the latter, and we made that really clear when Hunter came on board that that’s what we’re looking for. And she said, absolutely brilliant, because although I understand SEO, and because that was part and parcel of my education, that is not where my strengths lie. And so, it’s really important that you sit down and you understand what type of marketer you’re looking for. And once you have that in place, the rest will fall. If you don’t know what you’re looking for, then it’s a scattergun approach, because you’re going to be interviewing and you’re not actually going to know what you’re interviewing for. And that’s where sometimes people fall down. I’ve interviewed a really good marketer, but I’m not sure if they’re good. Well, you won’t know if they’re good, because you don’t actually know what you’re looking for.

Absolutely. The number of times, I’ve worked with a company where they’ve, they’ve got a coordinator on say, right, okay, what your digital marketing coordinator and what are you going to use them for? And they’re going to do SEO, they’re either going to do creators, and they’ve just combined, you know, it’s a very technical role, a very creative and a very admin role. And you think “Well, okay, that’s not going to go too well.’ And I think, you know, that’s absolutely fine. If they’ve got, 90 hours in a week to work at they can do all of that. It’s sometimes a difficult concept for business owners to get their head around. 

So, we’ve just been in the middle of recruiting people. So, one in marketing, now an engineer. Sounds really good review. I had a couple of questions. One, right at the beginning, you talking about, I guess, recruitment agencies or recruiters? And I’ve had it pointed out to me before that, yeah, the cost of somebody leaving and then having to go back to the marketing outweighs, you know, obviously, the customer recruiter. It’s not very scientific, I guess. Over the years, we’ve probably had about the same kind of success rate using Indeed or Totaljobs, advertising with agencies. Are we just using the wrong sort of recruiters or how do you go?

Potentially. So, if you’re looking for a marketer, it’s really important to understand what kind of marketer you’re looking for. Are you looking for very tech based? What kind of marketing you’re looking for? Once you’ve got that it’s so easy to find specialist recruitment agencies who do that. So, we went through a specialist recruitment agency, who recruits in all professional kind of development roles, but her real passion is digital marketing. And so, when she goes out to recruit, she takes on board everything that we do as a company, she will then go out and headhunt. But, which is really good for us. Her fees are spread over a period of 12 months. And so, it’s a monthly payment fees spread over a period of 12 months. And within X amount of months, if it doesn’t work out, then you get a free replacement. So, the work is already done and a free replacement. So, it’s about looking for the recruitment agencies that were that is their specialism. Any recruitment agency can turn around and go “Yeah, of course we’ll take on that marketer if or you, we’ll take on that marketing role for you. And find the person that you want and need”. But if don’t understand the actual premise of being a marketing individual, then they won’t understand what they’re looking for. And if you’ve had the same success rate in regards to Indeed and Totaljobs and whatever it might be, it could potentially be that you do a two-pronged attack. And you do that recruitment that you do with yourselves in regards to internal recruitment, and then you go out to agency as well. It is difficult.  We tried to do the internal. We decided to do it internally and we struggled for about six weeks because we just “send your CV in pings”. And I think we got kind of everything from I do administration two days a week, to I’m a director of a marketing agency, and I don’t want to work for myself anymore. It was a whole gamut in between. And so, if you’re willing to go through that, absolutely fine. But I will do a two-pronged attack. If you want me to pass on her details, I absolutely will. It’s really important that you go to somebody who’s specific, and that actually knows you as a business that knows your culture. We had a couple of marketing people that were sent through. And we’re not your kind of run of the mill HR company, okay. We’re noisy, I’m not going to lie. We’re a noisy HR company. We don’t sit here and tap out. And we’re not your typical lawyers. And so, we needed somebody who could come in and match that energy. And so, she absolutely understood that because she was just like, I need to find somebody that can match your energy.  I don’t need to introduce you to people that will sit in a corner and be very quiet, and not kind of Treveon proud people along in regards to what they need to do.

But absolutely. specific agencies, and the ability to spread your cost with set terms in place that you put in place is absolutely imperative. And then you can do your Indeed or Totaljobs, and everything else on the backburner, if you’ve got the time to do it. And I guess that’s what it all boils down to who doesn’t know about time? Yeah, I think we’ve not looked for specialists in I guess, the field that we’re recruiting for in the past and maybe that’s why we’ve gotten wrong. I mean, actually, in this case, we’re recruiting for an engineer. But I guess it could be a marketing.

How do you recruit? Well, we think we’ve cracked it with this one, It’s not that bad. But how do you recruit for a role that you don’t know how to do yourself? You know, you don’t have that technical experience in the business?

Who does? Does nobody have that technical experience in the business?

Was that a rhetorical question?

Yea, so, is there anybody? So, does nobody know how to do the role?

Well, no, we’ve done some research. If you’ve read electrical engineer, so we have, we don’t have any electrical engineers in the business. We know a bit about it. And we’ve done a bit of research into what sort of qualifications the kind of people that would fit our role tend to have and things like that. But yeah, we’ve got we’ve got a bit of a cunning plan to test them, test their knowledge of it. But yeah, I suppose in theory, they could just pull the wool over our eyes and say “yeah, I know how to do that”.

The best thing to do is use your network. So, LinkedIn networks or business networks. I need to bend somebody there in regards to what does this look like? What are you looking for? You’re not approaching them to poach staff. What you are doing is you’ll ever in a relationship to say, this is a brand-new role within my business, nobody has a technical expertise. But in order for me to man manage that individual, I don’t need to know how to do the role, I just need to know exactly what’s required. So, leverage those relationships, put out a bolo on LinkedIn to say: we’ve got a new role and need to have a one to one with somebody who understands kind of the premise of an electrical engineer. What qualifications do you need? Do we need to be insured? Do we need to be signed up to any standard, and then you’ll probably have a whole host of information coming in. And that gives you the ability to start filtering. Actually, I don’t want me to meet to you as an individual, but you’re trying to sell me something, because that’s what you’ll get. But you’re going to have a whole host of individual because despite what we think the business community is actually a really supportive one. And you’ll probably get a lot of information.

And also, if you’ve got a contact, they’ll probably have contacts within the electrical engineering environment, if that’s if you in engineering is your industry engineering, but just different type. You’ve probably working up with suppliers, etc. that will have those contacts, which who will have that information. And then get all of that information together and start to filter it out so that it looks like a solid job description or solid person specification. Even pass that on to the person that’s been helping you to say what does that look like? Is this too much? Are we asking too much from somebody? Or is this not enough? So, pop that out there and you and you’re bound to get something back if necessary. I’ll hook in with you and I’ll just repost that so that for all of us, because we work with facilities management companies who have electrical engineers on their books, I’ll be able to pop you in touch bits on people as well.

Well, thanks very much for the questions. I mean, we’re fantastic questions, sums up the situation that a lot of companies face themselves with, you want to grow, you want to expand, you want to develop new areas, but how do you and this goes for marketing as well? How do you manage somebody that that you don’t know actually what they technically do? A lot of companies employ marketing people face that situation as well. Yeah.

We are in the same boat. We are legal beagles. And so, marketing for us is alien. And so, we were very fortunate that we have an outsourced marketing person. But it in that sometimes happens with smaller businesses as well that when we first started off, we needed one person to do all of our marketing for us. As we’ve grown and grown and grown, we needed somebody in house to do that is seven and a half hours work, a week worth of marketing, because our 10 hours or six hours that we will get in from the outsourcer wasn’t just enough. So, what we’ve done is we really worked hand in glove with our outsourcer to say, this is what we need her to do, this is what we need our new marketing executive to do. What does that look like? Can you be involved in that induction program because it needs to be some sort of handover. And so, work with your outsourcers. They might ask for a little bit more money. But in the long term, they’re more than likely to be open and honest, in regards to this is what we’ve done. This is what needs to be handed over. Do you want this project to be completed by yours? Or do you want us to hand over halfway through? What does it look like in regards to content scheduling? In there’s all kinds of stuff happening? And so, work in conjunction with you outsources because if you don’t, you go into end up in a really not great place, because that handover doesn’t happen, you’re going to have a marketing person sat within your company, not really knowing what’s going on in regards to where strategy wise where you’re up to, and also who they need to be having conversations with to be pulling them around to them. So yeah, have those conversations. All conversations are good. On the marketing side, we’ve been lucky, because we’ve had Peter over the years. So, he’s always been, you know, to advise on that. But yeah, but it’s a general point.

Yeah, and we always made sure that we maximize the potential and the development of the of the coordinate and sometimes in a small business where you develop them, they no longer need us, which is also fine. But when you get to a bigger company like Ben’s and sometimes that sort of bit of support that I provide is essential thought for was quite a big team they’ve got. Yeah, and I think that

works across the board with any type of outsourcer. So, for us, as a HR company, we still provide support for large companies who already have a team in place. And they use us as “Oh my God, we are now under pressure at capacity, here’s our overflow, or we’ve got a project that needs to be done.” And it’s something that’s, that’s a little bit pinky, and when nobody’s really dealt with before, so nor can you deal with it because we probably have. And so, it’s really good to have that support, especially for bigger companies like yourself Peters. It’s just a sounding board sometimes where you can dip in and out with that advice

But those are brilliant questions. Ben, and thank you very much Amrita, that was a fantastic presentation. The as usual, it’ll be available on the website, the recording and the slide deck for you to download and Amrita’s details I think are on slide deck, so please feel free to get in touch. I can highly recommend Nori as an HR company because say we’ve been working with them closely now since pretty much their inception, even though we’re probably a quite a small player now and in their bigger realms of things, they you still get treated the same which is what you want, thank you. So, delighted to say that on the 12th of July we’re bringing before this is our last of the workshops before the summer. We’re presenting on how to use chat GPT to develop your marketing strategy, whether you like it or not, chat GPT is gonna change a lot of things. There’s already a lot of AI tools in use, we use a number of them already. But I’m going to show you how you can use it to develop your marketing strategy. Because developing marketing strategy is one of those things you go, Oh, yeah, I’ll do it next week is one of those from the Eisenhower matrix. It’s not urgent, but it’s super important. And so, I’m going to show you how to shortcut that process. So that using chat, and our new app, which is currently in user testing. And Rachel just put that into chat there if you if you want to see the link. But if you go to Vision2Success, stroke events or select Events off the menu, then you’ll be able to join in and be able to ask questions. And if you attend, you’ll be able to then take part in the user testing and get a free half hour with himself to show you how you can use it for yourself in your own marketing. So yeah, great to see you all again. And I look forward to seeing you in two weeks’ time.

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